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- Krishnamurti is right when he says no
Master is needed. Yes, one day you will also know that no Master is
needed, but you will know only when somebody has awakened you or you
have become awakened in somebody's presence. Then you will know, you
will say 'Krishnamurti is right.' But if you listen to Krishnamurti
right now and believe that no Master is needed, you will never come
to know that Krishnamurti is right. You will remain unawakened.
- Krishnamurti goes on saying that there is
no need to do anything. In fact, for the first-rate mind there is no
need to do anything; just by hearing, by right listening, one
attains. But where to find the first-rate mind? It is very rare.
Unless a Krishnamurti comes to listen to Krishnamurti it won't
happen. But why should a Krishnamurti go to listen to a Krishnamurti?
It is absurd. It has no meaning. A man who has that kind of
perceptivity can become awakened just by listening to the song of a
bird, just by listening to the breeze passing through the trees,
just by listening to the sound of the water flowing -- that's
enough, because from everywhere the Divine speaks. If you are
perceptive, whatsoever you hear you have heard the Divine
- J. Krishnamurti is totally different in
his expression, very logical, very rational. The beginning of his
work is always with the mind; then slowly slowly he leads you beyond
the mind.
- You can not like or dislike. It is not a
question of your choice. Truth is! Whether you like it or do not
like it is irrelevant. You can choose lies, but you cannot choose
truth -- truth is there. That's why Krishnamurti insists so much on
choiceless awareness. You cannot choose truth. Truth is already
there! It has nothing to do with your choice, liking, disliking.
- You will have to become more watchful
about the thoughts, dreams, memories, flicking by, moving around
you. You will have to have more attention focused on the thoughts.
Thoughts are the objects and you will have to become aware of them.
This is the first awareness: 'awareness one'. Krishnamurti talks
about this, he calls it 'choiceless awareness'. Don't choose. Don't
judge whatsoever thought is passing by, just watch it, just see that
it is moving. If you go on watching, one day, thoughts don't move
that fast; their speed has slowed down. Then, some day, gaps start
coming: one thought goes and another does not come for a long time.
Then, after some time, thoughts simply disappear for hours... and
the road is just empty of traffic.
- Krishnamurti is right when he again and
again emphasizes choicelessness. That is also the taste of Zen.
- My observation has been this: that
Krishnamurti is surrounded by the most egoistic people of this
world, and the reason is because there is a safe place -- no need to
surrender, no need to drop your ego, no need to follow anybody. Your
ego feels very strengthened and your ego feels that many
rationalisations are given to you. So you protect yourself with
those rationalisations.
- J. Krishnamurti was very serious -- I
don't think he ever smiled. A long life: ninety years. His fame
started very early, at thirteen years old; so really he had a very
long life of work and disappointments. Even the closest ones
betrayed him. His whole life seems to be just a series of betrayals,
and those who remained never managed to understand what he was
saying. They listened to him for half a century, but still he could
not cross their thick minds and reach to their being. And every
day... if you look at his life, in the beginning he was very
hopeful, very excited that man can be changed, that a new man can
arrive. But slowly, slowly that hope disappeared, that excitement
was no more there. And as he grew older, he became sadder.
- J. Krishnamurti goes on talking in
abstract terms. The whole approach seems to be mental, as if only
mind is to be used. The body need not be involved in it, emotions
need not be involved in it: only the abstract mind, as if Brahman is
a mathematical problem. It is not, it is an organic problem.
- Listening to Krishnamurti you are
listening to the mind -- the purest mind. You will feel good.
Listening, you will feel that you are understanding. Listening, you
will feel that you are reaching somewhere. But you are learning only
new words. You will learn 'awareness' -- the word, not awareness
itself. You will learn 'choicelessness' -- the word, not
choicelessness. And they will go on in the mind, and they will move
in the mind, and you will become just a mind -- a cerebral center.
Your emotions are not touched; your body remains untouched. Only
your mind is touched. That is why Krishnamurti has been a failure.
He is himself enlightened but he has been a failure. His whole life
he has been working with the mind and whatsoever he says is true but
it is not applicable because you are not only the mind: you are much
more. And that "much more" has to be transformed with the mind. You
have to be transformed as a totality.
- J. Krishnamurti is there. He talks; talks
very intelligently. Remember, I will not say logically: talks very
intelligently; goes into the analysis of any problem as deeply as is
humanly possible. But he is not a philosopher either. All his talk
is just like uprooting weeds from the garden. He destroys your
problems through his analysis. He does not give you anything; he
simply takes away all that you have been carrying in your mind. For
a moment you are utterly lost -- and in that very moment you can see
his reality. His experience starts flowing in you. People can miss
him also.
- Krishnamurti has his way, and I am happy
that he is in the world. He is at the other extreme. If he is gone,
I will miss him more than anybody else in the world.
But I can understand your question, Henk Faassen. This is not the
only question; you have asked many more about the same thing. It
seems it has hurt you deeply that I criticized Krishnamurti. You
don't understand me yet. This is my way of paying respects to him.
This is my way of declaring that there exists another enlightened
person in the world.
If my orchestra does not suit you, then the only alternative
possible is the solo flute-playing of J. Krishnamurti. There is no
other, no third person who can be of any help to you. Either
Krishnamurti or me -- there is no other alternative. Right now there
is no other alternative. Krishnamurti is bound to criticize me; I
can understand it. His standpoint is simple and clear, my standpoint
is a little more unclear. Sometimes I will appreciate him
tremendously, because I would like him to also become part of my
orchestra. And sometimes I will criticize him, because my own liking
is not for solo flutes.
- Just last night I received the last book
of
J. Krishnamurti,
in which he is not speaking to anybody -- he is speaking just to
himself. The words are recorded but there was no audience, and
perhaps in this book he comes closer to truth than in any of his
other books. The audience is a limitation. This has been my
experience too. If I am speaking to my own people, then there is no
limitation; then I don't feel that I have to say something, or not
to say something. Then I simply speak as if I am speaking to myself.
When I am speaking to people who don't know me, who don't understand
me -- moreover they misunderstand me -- there is a great limitation.
Then I am not at freedom to speak. Their very faces, their eyes,
their gestures prevent me from saying something that may hurt them.
- When I say Krishnamurti can get angry, I
don't mean, Henk, that he can get angry like you get angry. His
anger is out of compassion. This situation is unbelievable! He wants
to help this lady and he feels so helpless. He tries this way and
that. His message is very simple, singular, one-dimensional. For
fifty years he has been saying only a single word. In essence his
whole teaching can be printed on one side of a postcard. He has been
saying it in as many possible ways as one can invent, but it is the
same citadel that he attacks from the north, from the south, from
the west, from the east. And still people go on listening to him and
go on asking the same old foolish questions.
He certainly gets angry. And when a man like Krishnamurti gets
angry, he is pure anger. Many in India have felt very disappointed
with Krishnamurti because he gets angry. They have a certain concept
that a buddha should not get angry. They go with a prejudice. And
when they see that Krishnamurti can get angry, they are
disillusioned, "So this man is not a buddha, he has not become
enlightened yet."
- J. Krishnamurti has not received a Nobel
Prize -- and he is one of those rare human beings, those few of the
buddhas, who are really laying the foundation for world peace. And
Mother Teresa has received the Nobel Prize for world peace. Now, I
don't understand what she has done for world peace! George Gurdjieff
didn't receive a Nobel Prize, and he was working hard to transform
the inner core of human beings; Raman Maharshi didn't receive the
Nobel Prize -- because their work is invisible: their work is that
of bringing more consciousness to people. When you bring bread to
people it is visible, when you bring clothes to people it is
visible, when you bring medicines to people it is visible. When you
bring God to people, it is absolutely invisible.
- The path of affirmation seems the path of
effort, great effort: one is trying to reach God, one has to make
all the effort that is possible, one has to do the utmost, one has
to put oneself at stake. In modern times, Gurdjieff,
Ramakrishna-they followed the path of affirmation, VIA AFFIRMATIVA.
The other path is VIA NEGATIVA, through negation, through the 'no'.
Lao Tzu, Buddha, Nagarjuna -- they followed the path of negation. In
modern times, Ramana Maharshi, J. Krishnamurti -- they follow the
path of the 'no'.
- Krishnamurti is the purest statement of
the negative path as pure as Lao Tzu, as pure as Ashtavakra. A very
pure statement, but pure statements become very difficult because
you cannot understand them; they are so far away. You can only
misunderstand them. So he has been misunderstood. He is the most
misunderstood man. Nobody understands him, not even those who say
that they follow him. They also cannot understand, because he says
'No following is allowed. You should not become imitators.' And they
have become imitators. He says 'You cannot learn from me.' And they
have learned from him. That's why he sometimes beats his own head
- Krishnamurti fell into the hands of a very
fanatical group -- theosophists. It was a new religion. Whenever a
religion is new, it is very fanatical. By and by, it relaxes and
compromises and becomes just a social phenomenon; then it is no more
religion. Theosophy was just in its beginning, and Krishnamurti was
only nine years old when he fell into the hands of those fanatics.
They tried hard. They wouldn't allow Krishnamurti to meet and mix
with ordinary children -- no -- because they had a goal that he had
to become the world Teacher, JAGADGURU. He had to become the
coming-Buddha; he had to become the incarnation of Maitreya.
He was not allowed to move with any girl, because he might have
fallen in love and the whole dream of the theosophists would have
been shattered. He was constantly guarded. He was not allowed to
move alone; somebody was always with him, watching him. And he was
forced to follow very strict rules: three o'clock in the morning he
had to get up and take a cold bath; and then he had to learn
Sanskrit and he had to learn French and he had to learn English and
he had to learn Latin and Greek -- because a World Teacher should be
well cultured, sophisticated. Just a nine-year-old child!
When he was twelve years old, they started forcing him to write a
book. Now what can a twelve-year-old child write? In fact, the
teacher, Leadbeater, he was writing in his name. Krishnamurti would
write and Leadbeater would correct it and make it perfect. The book
still exists. A beautiful book, but you cannot expect it of a boy
just twelve years old. It is not from him. Even Krishnamurti cannot
remember it. When he has been asked he has said, "I don't remember
when I wrote it -- I don't remember at all how it came into being."
And they were talking nonsense -- esoteric nonsense: "In his dreams
he goes to the seventh heaven, and there God Himself is teaching
him." And just a twelve-year-old child -- very vulnerable, soft,
receptive; he would trust. And these people were world-famous; they
had great names. And the movement was really big and worldwide;
thousands and thousands of lodges were opened all over the world.
Just a twelve-year-old boy had become a world-famous personality.
Wherever he was going, thousands of people would gather just to see
him.
If you look at those pictures, you feel pity for him, compassion. He
was continuously in a cage. And it was natural, I think it would
have happened to anybody -- it had nothing to do with Krishnamurti.
Anybody in his place, if he had any spirit left, would have
renounced this whole nonsense, and would have come out of it. It was
too much of a prison. He could not write letters to anybody because
he might have made some relationship through the letters. A World
Teacher needs to be completely unattached. He started feeling a
little love for a woman who was old enough to be his mother, but
even that was stopped. It was nothing to do with sexuality or
anything; he just started feeling love from the woman. The woman was
already a mother of three children -- but the theosophists wouldn't
allow it. They stopped it.
He was completely in seclusion, never allowed to move into the
outside world. He was not allowed to enter in any school, in any
college, because there he would meet ordinary people and he would
become ordinary. Special teachers were appointed; he was taught
specially. And all around him, just a nine-year-old boy, all around
him such big talk -- of Masters, Master K.H. sending messages,
letters falling from the roof. They were all managed! Theosophists
were caught later on -- they were all managed: the roof was
specially made and a letter would drop suddenly, and it was for
Krishnamurti -- a message had come from the unknown.
Just think of a small boy.... No freedom allowed became a great urge
to be free. One day -- nobody was expecting it, that he would
renounce it -- the theosophists had gathered from all over the world
for the first declaration in which Krishnamurti was expected to
declare that he was the World Teacher and that God had entered into
him.
Suddenly, without saying anything to anybody.... He could not sleep
the whole night. He brooded over it: he has become a slave, and they
are all do-gooders; they have made you a slave because they want to
do good to you; and they love you and their love became nauseating;
and their well-wishing became poisonous. The whole night he brooded:
what is he to do? Whether he has to continue and become part of this
nonsense, or get out of it?
And blessed he is that in the morning when they had gathered and
they were waiting for God to descend in him and to declare that he
is now no more Krishnamurti but Lord Maitreya -- Buddha has entered
in him -- he suddenly declined and he said, "It is all nonsense.
Nobody is descending in me. I am simply Krishnamurti and I am
nobody's Master. And I am not a Jagadguru, not a World Teacher. And
I dissolve this nonsense and this organization and the whole thing
that has been made around me."
They were shocked! They could not believe it: "Has he gone mad,
crazy?" They had put much hope in him, much money; it was a great
investment, years of training. But it was going to be so. If he had
been absolutely a dead man, then only would he have accepted it. He
was alive. They could not kill his life, that aliveness exploded. If
he had been a dull, mediocre mind, maybe he would have accepted --
but he has an intelligence, a tremendous awareness. He got out of
it. That whole movement and the whole organized thing functioned as
a positive challenge.
- Intelligence has no choice. That's why
Krishnamurti goes on defining intelligence as choiceless awareness.
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